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From impactbomb 
5th-Nov-2007 05:20 pm
religion
Atheists and Anger

Read this.

In case any one was wondering why I never talk about religion here, it's because I'm apprehensive.

Because like a lot of atheists, at least on the internet, I feel I have less right to my lack-of-religion than I do to my gender or sexuality.
Opinions 
(Deleted comment)
5th-Nov-2007 06:52 pm (UTC)
I thought I'd read it already, but some of the reaction posts to it from Xians are scary. So yeah, it's a bit weird—I've had a couple people comment to me (in person) that they won't comment on some of my atheist themed posts because "it's not worth arguing with you", and I'm hardly aggressive compared to many. Weird.

Loving beinb back on my own PC and online, it's got all the little gadgets I've picked up over the years, including search engines for blogging, yay!
http://www.technorati.com/search/http%3A//gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html?sort=authority
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=http%3A%2F%2Fgretachristina.typepad.com%2Fgreta_christinas_weblog%2F2007%2F10%2Fatheists-and-an.html&btnG=Search+Blogs
http://www.bloglines.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fgretachristina.typepad.com%2Fgreta_christinas_weblog%2F2007%2F10%2Fatheists-and-an.html&r=0&s=0&s=0

For eye bleeding idiocy, look at this one:
http://anonym.to/?http://www.catholicpillowfight.com/index.php?module=blog&BLG_user_op=view&BLG_id=605
Gotta love anonym when you don't want ibeciles following your links.
5th-Nov-2007 05:47 pm (UTC)
I reckon I am in the minority who thinks that everyone should have a right to their own paths, in everything. I hope that at some point it becomes a place where you feel you have that right, those rights, all the time.

It might be ironic to say so, but I will be praying for such a time.
5th-Nov-2007 05:57 pm (UTC)
In case any one was wondering why I never talk about religion here, it's because I'm apprehensive.

Which is also pretty much true for me, only the opposite way round - I very, very rarely feel comfortable discussing my faith and what it means to me, and about 99% of the time those extremely rare occasions are one-on-one with other committed Christians.

Which is not in any way to devalue what you're saying, just that I think it can often go both ways.
5th-Nov-2007 06:00 pm (UTC)
's a good article that. It pretty much sums up my opinions of why lots of religious people on the net make me angry.

This is your journal and as such you can write whatever the hell you want. However if anyone thinks that you've got any less right to your opinions about god than anyone else then fuck 'em in the ear with a spoon.

The problem with a lot of atheists is that they're too apprehensive. We need to stop being apprehensive and start being angry, because as that article states we've got an awful lot to be angry about. (Hell there'll be a lot of religious people with us on some of those things).
5th-Nov-2007 06:41 pm (UTC)
(Hell there'll be a lot of religious people with us on some of those things).

Hell yeah. I don't really consider myself much of an atheist (nor much of a religious person), and all that stuff makes me angry too.
5th-Nov-2007 06:14 pm (UTC)
Reminds me of a story I read once where a girl's mother in Texas told her daughter that it was okay to beat up atheists.

Is it just me, or is atheist-bashing more common among the Abrahamic religions?
5th-Nov-2007 06:32 pm (UTC)
I think other-bashing in general is more common among Abrahamic religions but I admit the only non-Abrahamic religion I know much about is Buddhism.
5th-Nov-2007 07:03 pm (UTC)
RE Abrahamic religions and violence, I think it's mostly a "the grass is greener on the other side" effect.

If you know the history of Buddhism, then you know that the different Buddhist sects in Japan kept their own armies and fought wars against each other for centuries, until the central government grew strong enough to defeat the temple armies and impose order. And of course examples of Hindu Anti-Muslim violence in India are common (as well as corresponding examples of Muslim Anti-Hindu violence).

I don't know of any other examples off the top of my head, but I'm sure that's due to my ignorance of world religious history rather than a lack of any further cases.
5th-Nov-2007 08:52 pm (UTC)
Frankly, as a general rule anybody who thinks that Abrahamic religions have a monopoly on violence or hypocritical ignorance of their own basic principles whenever it becomes convenient, have an insufficient grasp on both history and current affairs. The only reason, IMO, that any group of people in history has ever professed to eschew violence against the Other is because either there isn't a convenient Other to attack, or because they don't think they have the manpower to win.

And even then, sometimes, they attack anyway.
5th-Nov-2007 06:16 pm (UTC)
I can understand you being apprehensive about talking about religion. After all, this is the net, where flaming and screaming are passed off as honest debate.

On one hand, I do see atheist-bashing around; on the other hand, I also see a lot of Christian-bashing around, especailly on the net. As always, I think a little respect and understanding on both sides wouldn't hurt.
5th-Nov-2007 09:36 pm (UTC)
I feel a little awkward talking about my religion among many of my friends. Not only because Christians are a minority in fandom, but also, frankly, we're not very welcome. Get a condescending "Oh..." (you know, that tone of voice that makes you feel about an inch tall) when you mention your religion once or twice and it makes it a little intimidating or frustrating to deal with.

Understanding, people, goes a lot further than anger or condescension in fixing some of these problems.
6th-Nov-2007 12:30 am (UTC)
Not trying to challenge you, but I'm surprised and curious -- Christians are a minority in fandom? What's the majority?
6th-Nov-2007 01:00 am (UTC)
It's possible that my perception could be mistaken, or it's possible that I just hang out in fannish circles that have heavy pagan or heavy skeptical or atheist majorities (it's entirely possible, in fact, and I admit the possibility, that it's perception bias sneaking in - last CONvergence I spent much of my after-hours time hanging around in the poly and GLBT room parties - what can I say, they throw good parties).

Honestly, I don't care what somebody else's spirituality or lack thereof looks like, as long as they don't give me or somebody I care about shit about ours.
6th-Nov-2007 04:00 pm (UTC)
It sounds like you have some inkling, then, of what's its like to be an atheist anywhere else, except that in the "everywhere else" you get anywhere from that "condescending Oh..." to prostelytizing at you to some jerkoff trying to kick your ass. Usually people look at you in the same way as if you admit that you just love to kick puppies, even if up to that point of admission they liked you just fine.
5th-Nov-2007 06:30 pm (UTC)
I understand where you're coming from.I've read what you've linked to & it's an excelent blog post.
I'm usually the other way around. I find it all too easy to rant off, & find it hard to keep my mouth shut.
5th-Nov-2007 07:01 pm (UTC)
Here's what I posted as a comment:

I agree with practically all of that, and so do all my neo-pagan friends. As usual, 99% of the problems that atheists ascribe to 'religion' actually only apply to 'traditional monotheisms'.

To repeat, I couldn't agree more with everything you said: the intolerance of others, the brainwashing of children, the intrusion of christianity into government, assuming theirs is the only basis for morality, and especially the ignorance which puts me in the category of 'knowing more about their faith than they do'. But it's not the case with everyone - several paths are set up to deliberately avoid doing all of that.

You can still dislike us for including a belief without proof, but the difference is *we don't mind if you feel that way* :)


I'm really pleased she wrote it, it's all true and needs saying loudly. I just don't think any of it applies to (the way I practice) Wicca in the UK.
(Deleted comment)
6th-Nov-2007 12:57 am (UTC)
That's true. I've found it varies between groups, but many agree with 99% of atheism. And most "work with" Gods rather than worshipping them.
5th-Nov-2007 11:51 pm (UTC)
I'm a devoutly religious person who frequently finds herself in the position of defending atheism to other devoutly religious people.

I think anyone who doesn't get why atheists might be angry hasn't been paying attention.
6th-Nov-2007 04:04 pm (UTC)
It's one of those funny things. I don't, particularly, feel the need to be nice to people who think I should suffer in torment for all eternity (which is pretty much the worst thing you can say to a person) for not believing what they believe. Yet somehow telling said people to fuck off makes YOU the bad guy.
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