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How to put me in a bad mood 
14th-Apr-2008 10:01 pm
Just finished watching The Real Casanova on TV Choice on Demand - shut up, it was gaming research. Not sure which annoyed me most: male historians declaring another man to be feminist, or female historians justifying violence against a woman by a) saying she deserved it for not putting out, and b) claiming he felt really bad about it afterwards.

Nasty mouth-taste exacerbated when we switched to BBC News 24  during Entertainment hour and discovered Noel Gallagher is a racist bastard.

Which, y'know, I'm not surprised about, but when I - IB - am coming down on the side of Hip-Hop, you know there's something wrong.

Course, I hate rich Britpop whining as much as any rap, but that's beside the point.
14th-Apr-2008 09:03 pm (UTC)
Not surprised in the least.
14th-Apr-2008 09:21 pm (UTC)
I'm not convinced that Jay-Z is a good choice for headlining Glastonbury, but it got where it is today by taking risks So if Michael Eavis thinks it'll work then I'll trust him to make the decisions.

I've seen Therapy? twice- both times substituting for bands that pulled out (Korn at Ozzfest, and Pantera at Tattoo the Planet). Not quite the band you'd expect, but they were great.
14th-Apr-2008 10:09 pm (UTC)
if Michael Eavis thinks it'll work then I'll trust him to make the decisions

Except from ticket sales it doesn't seem to have. Glasto tickets are normally gold dust and change hands for a fortune, this year they're still on sale. A headliner needs to be a headliner, and specifically needs to be a big act from within the normal target audience. A non-guitar band act could headline a second stage or be second on the bill, but this year I've seen no one 'big', and that's been echoed by the type of indie-kids on my f-list that are the normal core demographic.

Gallagher is, and always has been an arse, and he may or may not be racist, but those comments are, if badly worded, spot on.

But, um, where did Therapy? refs come from? Always been a top band, first saw them at my first Reading, and seen them many times since. But best substitute act I've ever seen were Pulp at my only Glasto, stormed the event, Eavis hadn't heard of them when they came in as a last minute thing. Still have the tape of that one somewhere, not sure I've still got a player to play it on but...
15th-Apr-2008 09:13 am (UTC)
I've been a fan of Therapy? for a long time, they didn't seem particularly out of place at Ozzfest. However Tattoo the Planet was had Cradle of Filth, Napalm Death, Biohazard, and Slayer. It was supposed to have Sepultura and Pantera. Therapy? wouldn't have been my first choice for "emergency band", even in 2007.
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14th-Apr-2008 09:53 pm (UTC)
While I'm no Gallagher apologist (anything but), I don't find what he said racist at all.

He's saying hip-hop isn't suited to Glastonbury. That's purely a musical comment. If anything, and please don't take this the wrong way, but your assumption that a mention of hip-hop in a negative fashion is a slight on a particular race (Eminem, anyone?), is more racist than anything Noel said.

Unless of course there was more in the BBC News 24 item than is contained in the NME article.
(Deleted comment)
14th-Apr-2008 10:13 pm (UTC)
Skin of Skunk Anansie

Now that was a great performance year I went, and given the album that came out of it is one of our doubled up sets I suspect you'd have agreed.
15th-Apr-2008 05:42 pm (UTC)
Actually, to pick a nit, Freddy Mercury was Indian. His parents were from Gujarat.
15th-Apr-2008 06:20 pm (UTC)
Uhm - pardon?

Who said guitar music is inherently white? Noel? Or are you meaning me?

He didn't say that, and I didn't even imply it.

Let's be clear (and give him the benefit of the doubt) - he mentioned Jay-Z, because it's Jay-Z that is headlining Glastonbury. Presumably, had it been Eminem headlining, he'd have made the exact statement, substituting Eminem for Jay-Z.

Or wait - were you agreeing with me? And making clear that what Noel said had nothing to do with race?

Because let's be clear here. Here's the article:


And here's the comment:

Gallagher said: "If it ain't broke don't fix it.

"If you start to break it then people aren't going to go. I'm sorry, but Jay-Z? No chance.

"Glastonbury has a tradition of guitar music and even when they throw the odd curve ball in on a Sunday night you go 'Kylie Minogue?'

"I don't know about it. But I'm not having hip-hop at Glastonbury. It's wrong."

There's NOTHING in that statement that can be construed as racist, or that can be construed as saying guitars are for white people only. Neither Noel or myself made any kind of statement. And bear in mind, his comments are on the back of the fact that for the first time in several years, Glastonbury hasn't sold out within a day or so of the tickets going on sale. So he's making his "if it ain't broke" statement with a degree of fact backing it up.

Frankly, anyone with a history of going to / watching / listening to the Glastonbury festival can see where he's coming from - it's hard to imagine Jay-Z headlining a festival that is more akin to the Woodstocks of old. That said, I think he's wrong, and under-estimating the pull and power of hip-hop in an open-air concert. I suspect that lack of sales are more to do with the general economic downturn in the UK at the mo'. But just because I think he's wrong (and in general, an ass), doesn't mean I think it's right that people make a story where there isn't one.

And here, there isn't one.

That's twice now that a 'stance' has been invented out of something someone has said - first, with the original poster, and now you, with what I said. Please stop it.

Oh, and you don't need to lecture me about Hendrix. As a left-handed guitarist, he's right up here on my list of influences.

Freddie Mercury is a whole different conversation....
15th-Apr-2008 06:23 pm (UTC)
Lol - I just looked up what 'IAWTC' means.

Methinks I should possibly have done that first.


Please ignore the vitriol of the reply, if not the sentiment!
15th-Apr-2008 12:32 am (UTC)
Hip hop is a black American genre of music (which, yeah, is often performed by non-blacks, as French and Japanese genres of music can be performed and contributed to by non-French and non-Japanese people), and it hasn't yet been as appropriated by whites as jazz, rock, etc. So the common complaints about rap (too sexual, too violent, uses bad English) reflect white racism against blacks, same as those exact complaints did back when it was rock & roll or jazz. Same as American dislike of country music is fed by unconscious prejudice against its South, whether or not there's also a purely musical basis. Music is culture too. I'm guessing this is what Debi is talking about.

And yeah, she's reading into the statements, but you kind of have to, since the only real reasoning he gives is "it's wrong."
15th-Apr-2008 12:59 am (UTC)

"And yeah, she's reading into the statements, but you kind of have to, since the only real reasoning he gives is "it's wrong.""

So because he doesnt say anything, she can read anything she likes into it?

He might be wrong, but he's not racist. (and i'd sort of agree with him, although ive never been there, so i really haven't got a leg to stand on... like my dear friend debi (disclaimer: with the evidence of the links she's given))
15th-Apr-2008 01:19 am (UTC)
No, if she read a virulent hatred of submarines into it, I'd say she was crazy. Or just very creative.

I don't think he hates black people or anything (I dunno if Debi meant that, but my guess would be no), but if he doesn't see any the need to explain why he thinks hip hop isn't appropriate there, then he's relying on people to already know and share his reasons. That's what I mean by "you kind of have to." And the way he says it, I don't know what else he could mean besides general sentiment that hip hop is Not Our Kind. Which is really not the least racially loaded sentiment around.
15th-Apr-2008 11:52 am (UTC)
But he does explain why - he says "Glastonbury has a tradition of guitar music". I mean, on reflection, I don't think that's a great reason, although I can see the point that if it's a festival with a certain type of music, it'd be good to headline it with that type of music... but Glastonbury seems to be diversifying anyway.

Back to the point, though, in this case saying it's not our kind seems very reasonable. You'd not go to an italian restaurant and expect the best dish there to be curry; you'd not go to an evening class for maths and be taught history; you'd not go to a festival of guitar music and expect a hip-hop band headlining. I suppose you could argue that's some sort of "ism" - "you're not being inclusive of all types of food, you're curryist!" - but really I would say to call his comments racist is just being inflammatory.

I don't like the way he says it though, "But I'm not having hip-hop at Glastonbury." - it's not your festival!

A virulent hatred of submarines would be an interesting interpretation ;) "Glastonbury sucks, cos there's loads of submarines there!" Given the weather, perhaps not an impossibility...
15th-Apr-2008 04:52 pm (UTC)
But he does explain why - he says "Glastonbury has a tradition of guitar music".

But -- Kylie Minogue ... ?

Granted I've never been to Glastonbury, but it looks to me* like a better analogy would be "there shouldn't be a curry entree in J. Random University's dining hall tonight, we have a great tradition of eating British food."

* Uh ... from Wikipedia. But, I mean, it's billed as a festival of contemporary performing arts, it's not like it's called the Glastonbury Guitar Music Festival.

It wouldn't have been my phrasing -- if I objected whenever somebody said something like that about hip hop, I'd never stop objecting and my jaw would fall off -- but I get why Debi said it. And I definitely don't think it's more racist to point out that overall, negative sentiment toward "black" music isn't separate from negative sentiment toward blackness, than it is to imply that there's something fundamentally inappropriate about Jay-Z at Glastonbury for reasons you can't explain, like allorin was saying.
15th-Apr-2008 06:52 pm (UTC)
But he did explain it - he said he doesn't think what is predominantly a guitar-based festival is suited to hip-hop. Just because you don't agree with his explanation, doesn't mean he didn't give one.

I agree, his phrasing was blunt - but seriously, what else would we expect from one of the Gallagher brothers?
17th-Apr-2008 11:49 pm (UTC)
He doesn't explain how Kylie Minogue is suitable for the festival, but Jay-Z isn't.

I don't actually think his phrasing was blunt.
15th-Apr-2008 05:38 am (UTC)
I just think that Noel Gallagher is a nasty macho gobshite - and Oasis are a rubbish band too.

Mind you, most male rappers are nasty macho gobshites too.
15th-Apr-2008 09:49 am (UTC)
I don't see the racism, unless he said more than is in that article. I just see a turgid fart who fears change. Kind of ironic for a supposed rock star...

But then I've always thought he and his brother were a pair of self-congratulatory tossers who've made a career out of ripping off the Beatles, so I don't pay too much attention to anything they have to say.
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